mulfkfq
Bgq isMG mYnUM sky Brf aqy sky byty qoN vI vwD ipafrf sI

- durgf BfbI

(durgf BfbI dy nF nfl pRiswD kRFqIkfrI aOrq pRiswD ienklfbI BgvqIcrn vohrf dI pqnI sI. BgvqIcrn Bgq isMG nUM jylH ‘coN CuzfAux dI kIqI jfx vflI koiÈÈ leI bMb df pRIKx krdy rfvI iknfry bMb Ptx nfl ÈhId ho gey sn. sFzrs dy kql qoN bfad durgf BfbI ny Bgq isMG dI pqnI dy Bys ivwc AusnUM lfhOr qoN klkwqy phuMcfAux ivwc mdd kIqI, ies hkIkq nUM ieiqhfs dy sfry ividafrQI jfxdy hn. durgf BfbI nfl swqrivaF ivwc iewk ieMtrvIAU pMjfbI XUnIvristI dy Erl ihstrI sYWl vwloN kIqI geI sI. ies ieMtrvIAU ivwc AuhnF dy hUbhU bol ijAuN dy iqAuN drj hn. asIN Bgq isMG dI jnm-ÈqfbdI dy (28 sqMbr) dy mhIny ÈrDFjlI vjoN Aus ieMtrivAU dy kuwJ aMÈ ‘sIrq’ dy pfTkF dI idlcspI leI Cfp rhy hF.)

pR: afp hmyN Xy bqfeyN ik afpkf jnm khF hUaf? khF pr iÈÉÈf pRfpq kI aOr jIvn ky kuC aihm hfl bqfeyN?
Au: myrf jnm sfq akqUbr 1907 ko ielfhfbfd myN hUaf. myry ipqf srkfrI nOkr Qy aOr ielfhfbfd iËlHy myN hI eyk ÈfhËfdpur ngr hY, jhF hmfrI iËmINdfrI QI. bcpn myN muJy iksI imÈn skUl myN dfiÉl krvfXf igaf lyikn iksI vjh sy myrI iÈkÈf aiDk idn nf cl skI aOr hm logoN ko gFv jfnf pVf. Ausky bfd CotI Aumr myN hI myrI ÈfdI ho geI QI. ijs smX myrI ÈfdI hUeI, Aus smX myrI Aumr qkrIbn igafrF, sfZy-igafrF sfl kI QI. myrI iÈÉÈf vgYrf qo bs ieqnI QI ik mYN QoVI bhuq ihMdI vgYrf pVH lyqI QI. Aus Ëmfny myN mhFBfrq vf rmfiex bhuq clqI QI.
pR: qo afpkI ÈfdI BgvqI crn vohrf sy hUeI?
Au: jI hF.
pR: vh Aus vkq lfhOr rhqy Qy?
Au: jI hF, Aus vkq vh lfhOr rhqy Qy. Aunky ipqf rylvy myN iksI AUNcI post pr Qy.
pR: aOr BgvqI crn ikaf krqy Qy?
Au: Xh qo pVHqy Qy Aus Ëmfny myN. jb ÈfdI hUeI qo voh pVHqy Qy aOr Aus sfl AunhoN ny hfeI skUl kI prIkÈf dI QI.
pR: afp Bgq isMG ko kYsy jfnqI hYN? Aunky sfQ kYsy sMprk myN afeI?
Au: Bgq isMG kf hmfry sfQ afnf jfnf Qf aOr kfilj BI CoVf Qf Ausny. aOr ijqny BI kfilj CoVy hUey Qy, AunkI qo goÈtI hI hmfry Gr pr hoqI QI. qo ies qrh sy hmfrf eyk dUsry sy sMprk Qf. qo ies qrh hmyN Ausy (krFqIkfrI aMdoln) sMgiTq krnf ÈurU ikXf. Epn plyt Ìfrm qo hmfry pfs koeI hoqf nhIN Qf, kXoNik hmyN iCpy iCpy kfm krnf hoqf Qf qo ies iley hmny ‘nOjvfn Bfrq sBf’ aOrgynfeIË ikXf, kuC nftk mMzlIaF bnfeIN.
pR: Bgq isMG ky muqilk afp ky kXf iKafl hYN? vh kYsy Qy myrf Bfv Aunky sMbMD myN afp ky kXf ivcfr hYN?
Au: Bgq isMG ky muqilk qo mYN afp ko kXf iÉafl bqfAUN, Èfied myrf sgf BfeI Xf sgf bytf hoqf qo Auqnf ipafr nf hoqf. Bgq isMG ky sfry pirvfr sy myrf bMDn Qf. srdfr ikÈn isMG hmko lVkI kI qrh mfnqy Qy. ab hI Bgq isMG kI mfqf jI kI imrqXU hUeI hY, Aus ky eyk sfl pihly vh XhF afeI QI qo vyitMg rUm myN TihrI QI, Aunko ptnf jfnf Qf qo muJy AunhoN ny Ìon krvfXf qo mYN Aun sy imlny geI. vh ieqnI qVÌ qVÌ ky roeI ik mYN afpko bqf nhIN skqI. AunkI imrqXU pr mYN afKoN kI vjh sy jf nhIN skI lyikn Aus pUry pirvfr ky ilXy myry idl myN bhuq ÈrDf QI, aOr hY.
pR: jb sFzrs ko mfr idXf gXf qo afpko kXf ies bfq kf pqf Qf ik nhIN?
Au: kuC hony vflf hY, Xyh pqf Qf lyikn kXf hony vflf hY, ieskf muJy pqf nhIN Qf.
pR: aOr iksny krnf hY, Xyh BI pqf Qf?
Au: nhIN, Xy BI pqf nhIN Qf. aYsf Qf ik jb ‘myrT kFspIrysI kys’ cl rhf Qf, Èfied afp ko Xfd hogf ik ieMtrnYÈnl kimAUinst aOrgynfeIËyÈn kf Qf, qo Aus myN myry pqI ky BI vfrMt Qy. pr Èwk ho igaf ik aYsf ho skqf hY qo vh Gr CoV kr Ìrfr ho gey. qo vh klkwqy myN cly gey aOr vhIN rhqy Qy aOr myN lfhOr rhqI QI Xfin ijs vkq afËfd ny apny afdmI ko, ijskf nfm vfÈpfien Qf, lfhOr Byjf sfrI bfq smJfny ky ilXy qo vfÈpfien muJ sy hI imlf Qf.
pR: Ausko afp ky pfs iks ilXy Byjf gXf Qf?
Au: Ausko Ausy ies bfq kf pqf krny ky ilXy Byjf gXf Qf ik Xh (hm) sI: afeI: zI: ky afdmI hYN Xf nhIN? qo kuC Bgq isMG kI koiÈÈ aOr kuC vfÈpfXn sy bfqcIq kf jo nqIjf inklf vh Xh Qf ik hm logoN myN vh sfrI smwisaf hwl ho geI aOr hm eyk dUsry sy bhuq pRym sy imly. aOr hm log eyk hokr kfm krny lgy. qo Bgq isMG ky aOr hmfry sMbMD bhuq gihry Qy, Aus pirvfr ky sfQ afj BI hYN aOr mYN smJqI hUM ik Bgq isMG jYsf afdmI hmfry bIc myN koeI dUsrf nf Qf. hr mfnyN myN Xfin iksI sy mukfblf krnf Êlq hY, koeI XogXqf sy afgy hoqf hY, koeI ÈrIrk bl myN afgy hoqf hY qo koeI iksI cIË myN afgy hoqf hY mgr AusmyN vkqf kI BfÈx dyny kI jo XogXqf QI AusI vjh sy hmny Bgq isMG ko asYNblI myN Byjf Qf.
sFzrs kFz jb hony lgf Qf qo qb myrT kFspIrysI kys cwl hI rhf Qf. qo myry pqI lfhOr jfqy BI Qy kBI kBfr, khIN bfhr eyk afD idn Tihry BI Qy qo Aus dOrfn Aunhony kuC ruipaf myry pfs rwKf ik ËrUrq pVH skqI hY. qo hmko Ërf Èwk ho igaf ies bfq pr. mYN vhIM lfhOr myN afrXf kMinaf ividafly myN pVHfqI QI. mYN vhF ihMdI kI lYkcrfr QI. qo Aussy hI hmko Èwk ho igaf. qo skUl kI bs myN kBI kBI eyk tIcr kI izAUtI hoqI QI ik jb sb bwcy/lVkIaF clIN jfeyN qb jfnf hogf. qo hmfrI izAUtI QI Aus idn. qo zrfeIvr Qf jo bws vflf, vh kihny lgf ik sfihb afj qo eyk aYsI Gtnf ho geI hY puils styÈn ky pfs jo sMBflf nhIN jf rhf Qf. hm soc rhy Qy ik kuC pqf lgy lyikn jb mYN gfVI myN bYTI qo Ausy khf ik gfVI ko AusI qrÌ sy inkflo. afiÉr ikaf mfmlf hY. qo vhF dyKf ik vhF puils hI puils QI, sb aÌsr log Qy, BIV QI. mYN sIDI apny Gr clI geI. AusI rfq ko bVf suKdyv afT bjy ky krIb myry pfs afieaf. asl myN hm log bhuq sfrI ajb ajb sI cIËyN rKqy Qy apny pfs, jYsy eyk pMizq af rhy hYN, vh sMsikRq pVHf rhy hYN. koeI sMsikRq kI qo hm ko ËrUrq nhIN QI qo pMizq jI hm ko sMsikRq pVHf rhy Qy. qo suKdyv afey aOr afny ky bfd Aunhony khf ik sMsikRq vgYrf kf sB kfm Éqm kro. voh bolqf qo aYsy hI Qf. qo pMizq jI cly gey. vo kihny lgf ik aYsf hY ik hmyN kuC ruipXoN kI ËrUrq hY. mYny khf ly jfE. mYny Ausko rupey dy idey. Ausky afDy GMty bfd vo iÌr afXf. aOr kihny lgf ik qum CuwtI ly skqI ho? Xh Èfied 18 idsMbr kI bfq hY. 21 qfrIÉ ko CuwtIXyN ho hI jfqIN QIN kirsims kI aOr Xh CuwtIeyN hony vflI QI kfilj myN. qo hmny khf ik 21 ko hmfrI CuwtIeyN hony vflI hYN. kihny lgf, nhIN pihly sy lynIN pVyNgI. qo mYny khf, “awCI bfq hY, ly lyNgy.” Xh bfq ho geI. Xh jo sMsikRq kf mYny iËkr ikXf ik hm jo aYsI bfq krqy Qy Aussy Xy hoqf Qf ik jo hmfry ikrfeydfr Qy AunmyN BI eyk sI: afeI: zI: kf afdmI Qf. vh hmfry Gr kI sfrI gqIivDIaF smJqf Qf. aOr Xh BI koiÈÈ krqf Qf ik Xh aOrq hY, iesko bdnfm kro, akylI rhqI hY Gr myN bwcoN ko lykr.
pR: kXf afp ky ssur jI BI nf Qy?
Au: myry pqI qo cly gey Qy aOr ssur kI mOq ho cuwkI QI. ies qrh Xh Gr myN hr afny jfny vfly kf iDafn rKqy Qy qo iesI ilXy hmfry XhF hr iksm ky afdmI afqy Qy, pMizq BI af rhy hYN, muwlF bI af rhy hYN. mqlb jo QoVHf bhuq kfm nfrml iËMdgI myN hoqf Qf. ÉYr mYny CuwtI ly lI. Ausny (suKdyv) khf ik afpko apnf lVkf BI sfQ ly jfnf hogf. mYny khf ik ly jfeyNgy. lVkf qo qIn sfl kf Qf hm khF CoV jfeyNgy.
pR: Xh iks idn khf Qf Ausny?
Au: ijs idn ruipXf ilaf Ausny, AusI idn dobfrf af kr khf. Ausny hI socf hogf ik kYsy kYsy inkflnf hY iksko. cMdr ÈyÉr afËfd ko inkflnf Qf, Bgq isMG ko inkflnf Qf aOr rfjgurU ko inkflnf Qf. ies qInoN ko inkflnf Qf aOr qInoN mhwqvpUrn hsqIaF. qo iÌr Ausky dUsry idn (Xh muJy pUrI qrh sy Xfd nhIN) rfq ko Bgq isMG aOr rfjgurU donoN afey.
pR: sFzrs ko mfrny ky bfd Xf pihly?
Au: mfrny ky bfd. AusI idn ijs idn Xh sFzrs mfrf gXf aOr suKdyv pYsy ly gXf aOr hmsy kh gXf ik afpko jfnf pVygf. Ausky bfd dUsry Xf qIsry idn rfq ky 9-00 bjy Bgq isMG aOr Ausky sfQ myN rfjgurU afey. Aus smX hmfry Gr pr puils vfly ieqny hoqy Qy ik do afdmI qo iblkul hI bYTy rihqy Qy. ikXoNik apny imlny vfly BI jo Qy 15-20 log, Aunky pICy BI do do puils vfly hoqy Qy, qo eyk awCI KfsI kqfr lg jfqI QI puils vfloN kI. qo Aunko ckmf dykr afnf jfnf BI muÈikl hoqf Qf. vh iÌr donoN iksI qrIky sy afey. Bgq isMG ko mYny pihlI bfr dyKf ik vh dfVHI vgYrf sfÌ kIey hUey Qf aOr hYt pihny hUey Qf.
pR: qo iessy pihly vo dfVHI rKqy Qy?
Au: jI hF, voh rKqy Qy. vo asl myN ienhonyN sFzrs ky iley hI apnf Xy Bys bfnfXf Qf. qo suKdyv ny khf ik ienko pihcfnnf hY? qo mYN kXf khqI? mYny khf BfeI mYny qo nhIN pihcfnf. mYN Ausko BI nhIN jfnqI QI rfjgurU ko. qo suKdyv kihny lgf, “vhI jftU hYgf ijs nUM sMgqry Kuafey sI.” roË afqf Qf nf Gr qo kuC nf kuC zrfeI PrUt Qf, agr Kfnf Kf rhy hYN qo Kfnf hI iKlf dIaf sfQ myN. qo kihny lgy Xy vhI hY. qo ‘jft’ jb Ausny khf qo mYN smJ geI. qo vh (Bgq isMG) hMs pVf aOr jb vo hMsf qo mYN eykdm AuskI hMsI smJ geI. ÉYr Kfnf vgYrf bnf aOr Kfnf iKlfXf gXf Aunko. rfq ko vhIN soey sb log. suKdyv clf igaf. qo rfjgurU jo hY vh nOkr bnky afXf Qf sfhb kf. ÌtI hUeI drI myN kuC lpytf hUaf aOr nOkroN vfly kwpVy pihny hUey Qy Ausny. aOr Xy jo Bgq isMG Qf Xh sfihb bny hUey Qy. Xfin ik jb BI muJy iËMdgI myN Xyh cIË Xfd afqI hY qo burf lgqf hY ik Bgq isMG aOr suKdyv ko qo hmny bVI ÉfqrdfrI sy Kfnf iKlfXf aOr Ausko (rfjgurU ko) nOkroN kI qrh AuTf kr eyk plyt myN Byj idaf Qf. ikAuNik Aus smX vh nOkr ky vyÈ myN Qf. Aus smX idmfg myN ieqnI cIËyN cwkr lgf rhI QI ik Xh socf BI nhIN jf skqf Qf ik Xh BI koeI apnf afdmI hogf. ÉYr Ausky bfd subh koeI gfVI clqI QI aOr suKdyv ny itkt ÉrId rKy Qy. qo subh qVky puils vfloN ky afny sy pihly hI hm ieDr AuDr sy inkl gey. tFgy sy gey Qy Èfied.
pR: hF qo afpko khf gXf Qf ik sfQ clnf hY klkwqy jfny ky iley?
Au: hF. lyikn Xy nhIN bqlfXf gXf Qf ik klkwqf jfnf hY. itkt BI Aus (suKdyv) ny ÉrIdy Qy. Ìst klfs myN mYN, Bgq isMG aOr myrf lVkf bYTy aOr nOkroN ky AusmyN rfjgurU bYT igaf. ab muJy Xyh TIk Xfd nhIN ik afËfd BI Qy ik nhIN Qy ikAuNik mYny kBI ies bfq pr iDafn nhIN idaf. lyikn bfd myN ieDr AuDr pVHf ik afËfd BI rfm nfmI dupwtf pihn kr AusI gfVI sy inkly Qy. jo BI ies smX Aunsy koeI vfsqf nhIN ikAuNik Xh dUsrI cIË hY.
qo ies qrh sy hm log vhF sy inkly. hmyN lKnAU afnf pVf aOr XhF sy gfVI bdlnI pVHI.
pR: afp iÌr lKnAU kXoN Tihry?
Au: Xh mYN nhIN bqf skqI ik ikAuN? XhF hm log Auqry aOr keI GMty ruky aOr Èfm ko jo myl jfqI hY subh, koeI BI gfVI jfqI hogI Èfm ko, isafldf jfqI hY Xf aOr koeI jfqI hY, Aus gfVI sy hm gey. Xf qo Aun logoN ny socf hogf ik ‘zfierYkt’ itkt nf ilXf jfey.
pR: idn ibqfny ky ilXy qF ik rfq rfq ko sÌr ikXf jfey?
Au: hF, hF, sIDf itkt nf ilXf jfey ikAuNik puils vfly qo hmyN Gyry hUey Qy. lKnAU afkr, vhF sy do svfrIaF AuTfeI jf rhI hYN qo alwg bfq hY. XhF sy iÌr hm klkwqy phuMcy. klkwqy Bgq isMG ny suÈIlf dyvI QI, Aunko qfr dIXf.
pR: vhF afp ikqny idn Tihry?
Au: eyk hÌqf Tihry. klkwqf kFgrs sYÈn ÈurU ho igaf Qf AusI kf Ìfiedf AuTFnf cfhqy Qy Bgq isMG, vhF ky logon sy sMbMD kfiem krny myN. vh idn Br qo imkscr kI ÈIÈI lykr cfrpfeI pr pVf rihqf Qf ik bImfr hY. lyikn hmfrf jo Kfnf afey sfrf hI Kf jfqf Qf. eyk bycfrf srdfr jsvMq isMG Qf vh apny sfQ Èwkr aOr GI ly gXf eyk tIn. vh Bgq isMG inkfly aMdr sy mfrvfVIEN kI rotI ky sfQ Kfqf Qf ÉUb. idn myN vh bImfr rhqf aOr rfq ko cwkr lgfqf Qf, logoN sy imlqf julqf Qf, bImfrI kf qo mfqr kfrx Qf.
pR: Ausky bfd afp khF gey klkwqy sy?
Au: Aus ky bfd mYN lfhOr clI geI aOr Xyh sb log alg alg afey.
pR: ikaf afpky pqI BI afpky sfQ afey?
Au: nhIN, vh qo khIN aOr cly gey. afgry gey Xf lfhOr gey, Xh muJy nhIN pqf. ikAuNik hm log eyk dUsry ko bqfqy nhIN Qy, Xh bfqyN.
pR: afp Xh bqfeyN ik Bgq isMG pr Aus smX kimAUinstoN kf asr Qf Xf ik kOmI lihr kf?
Au: kimAUinst ivcfrDfrf Aus smX qk ihMdusqfn myN ieqnI pfpUlr nhIN QI pr iltrycr kf asr ËrUr Qf. afËfdI AunhoNny hfisl krnI QI, ieskf (kimAUinst lihr kf) asr ËrUr Qf hU-b-hU jYsy myrT kimAUinst kfnspIrysI hUeI vh bfq nhIN QI.
pR: koeI aOr bfq jo Bgq isMG ky muqwilk jfnqI ho?
Au: Bgq isMG ky muqilk qo sBI bfqyN mflUm hYN.
pR: nhIN, jo afpko ËfqI qOr pr pqf ho?
Au: myrf apnf Aunky bfry myN jo iÉafl hY vh Xh hY ik hm BfÈx vfÈx qo bhuq sunqy hYN logoN ky agr ijs qrh sy Bgq isMG bol skqy Qy Xf jb kort Xf kcihrI myN jfqy Qy vh Aunkf eyk apnf hI qrIkf Qf. hmyN Xh duK nhIN ik Bgq isMG clf igaf, ikAuNik Bgq isMG qo AusI kfm ky iley hI bnf Qf. eyk do aOr CotI sI bfqyN bqf dUM Aunky bfry myN ik pihly jb hmfry Gr afqf Qf, hmfrf mkfn ies qrIky sy bnf Qf, qIn mfkn Qy hmfry, do ikrfey pr Qy aOr eyk myN hm rihqy Qy. nIcy bYTk QI. Kfnf bnfny kI jgh AUpr QI aOr bYzrUm BI AUpr Qy. qo Bgq isMG afXf nIcy. nIcy eyk qÉqf pVf rihqf Qf ijs pr nOkr bYTqy Qy, qo Ausny Aus qÉq pr pYr rKy aOr KVf Qf. Ausny afvfË dI Xf Èfied GMtI bjfeI qo mYny AUpr sy dyKf aOr khf, “kOn hY?” Ausny khf, “Bgq isMG”. mYny khf nhIN, ‘vh bfhr gXf hUaf hY.’ (pqI BgvqIcrx-sM) mYN qo Xyh kh kr lOt geI lyikn vh KVf rhf. jyb myN AuskI sMgqry Bry hUey Qy, ds Xf bfrh. vh Ausny vhIN bYTkr Kfey aOr sfry iClky vhIN zflkr clf gXf. mYny qo dyKf hI nhIN, Xh qo muJy bfd myN pqf clf. ijs idn rfq ko vh hmfry XhF afXf aOr Kfnf iKlfXf mYny, qo kihny lgf ik ‘hmko pUCf hI nhIN hY, hm nIcy KVy sMgqry Kfqy rhy. BgvqI nhIN Qf qo hmko Gr myN hI iksI ny nhIN ibTfXf.’ qo ies qrh ky mËfk ikaf krqy Qy.eyk bfr Aus sy jylH myN imlny ky iley geI. mYN Bgq isMG ko qo AuskI cfcI bnky imlny geI QI (ajIq isMG kI bIvI bn ky) ikAuNik aOr qrh qo jfny hI nhIN dyqy Qy. pihly qo puils vfloN sy Cutkfrf pfXf. khIN iÌr Ausky bfd srdfr jI sy tfeIm ilaf qo ies qrh sy khIN mYN phuMcI. Bgq isMG PFsI vflI koTVI myN Qy. qo kwcI sI koTVI QI vhF jhF Bgq isMG bYTf Qf. Ausky pICy eyk aOr QoVHI sI jgh QI. vYsI KulI QI vhF koeI drvfËf nhIN Qf. Bgq isMG kihny lgy, “clo pyVy KfeyN.” mYny khf, “pyVy khF sy afey?” asl myN vh koeI gupq bfq kihnf cfhqf hogf ikAuNik mYN Bgq isMG ky lIey bfhr kf eyk ilMk QI. eyk qrIky sy jb qwk mYN Ìrfr nhIN hUeI QI Aus vkq qwk sfrI bhfr kI ÉbryN muJy aMdr ByjnI pVqI QIN aOr aMdr kI ÉbryN bfhr phuMcfnI pVHqI QIN. qo koeI bfq kihnI hogI srdfr jI ny hmy. logon ky sfmny kihnf TIk nhIN smJqf hogf. qo vh hmko vhF ly gXf. vhF eyk stov, jo pihly Ëmfny myN Qy pIql ky Coty-Coty, Aus stov pr pqf nhIN Ausny ikaf cIË rKI QI Aus pr qIn cfr pyVy rwKy Qy. mYny khf ik Xy khF sy af gey? qo Bgq isMG kihny lgf, “dUD imlf, Ausko pkfXf aOr pyVy bn gey” Xh jylH kI PFsI kI koTVI kI bfq hY. jb ik Ausy PFsI kI sËf ho cukI QI. qo vYsy qo koeI Éfs cIË muJy Xfd nhIN pV rhI lyikn……………
pR: cMdr ÈyÉr afËfd khF ky rihny vfly Qy?
Au: Xh JFsI ky rihny vfly Qy………. myry pqI ko ienhoNny jo afrgynfeIËyÈn QI AusmyN Èfiml kr ilXf Qf. ab donoN eyk ho gey Qy kXoNik ab koeI ÊlqÌihmI nhIN QI. qo ien logon ny Xh qih ikXf ik hm Bgq isMG ko jylH sy CuVfeyNgy. qo Bgq isMG ko jylH sy CuVfny ky iley kfÌI log lfhOr myN iekwTy hUey, slfh mÈvrf krny ky iley. myry vfrMt BI inkl cuky Qy. qo mYN BI vhIN khIN do-cfr idn sy iCp kr rih rhI QI, lfhOr myN hI. XÈpfl ky BI vfrMt inkl cuky Qy. Gr hmny CoV idaf Qf. qo hm sb log, XÈpfl Qy, DnvMqrI Qy hmfry logoN ky vfrMt iekwTy hI inkly Qy. hm log Bgq isMG ky kfm myN hI lgy rihqy Qy aOr ies bfq kf iÉafl rÉqy Qy ik hmfrI bfrI kb afqI hY.
qo kuC mflUm hUaf hmyN kXoNik puils myN kuC apny BI qo afdmI hoqy Qy. qo hmyN Xh mflUm ho gXf ik hmfry vfrMt inkl rhy hYN aOr hm do cfr idn ky ilXy iCp gey. iesI bIc afËfd ny, myry pqI ny aOr dUsry sfQIEN ny, Xh muJy Xfd nhIN ik koeI mIitMg vIitMg kr ky qh ikXf Xf kYsy ikXf.
pR: afpky pqI kb lfhOr afey?
Au: AsI vkq. bIc bIc myN afqy BI rhqy Qy. Tihrqy khIN aOr Qy pr afqy jfqy rihqy Qy. qo jb Bgq isMG ko CuVfny kI bfq hUeI qo sb iekwTy hUey. afËfd BI Qy, vfÈpfien BI, sb af gey. hmny jylH roz pr eyk koTI lI QI ikrfey pr. jo koTI hmny ikrfey pr lI QI Ausky afDy ihwsy myN koeI ieMjInar rihqf Qf. qo vhF Xh mihsUs ikaf gXf ik agr isrÌ mrd log hI XhF rhyNgy qo log khyNgy Xh iks iksm ky log af bsy hYN. qo iÌr hmny suÈIlf jI ko BI bulf ilXf klkwqy sy. vh nOkrI CoV kr af geI. mYN qo vYsy hI Gr CoV cukI QI. qo hm donoN aOrqyN vhF ho geIN.
pR: qo afpny nOkrI BI CoV dI hogI?
Au: vh qo apny afp hI CUt geI QI. qo hm donoN BI AusmyN cly gey apnf vyÈ bdl ky. AusI myN afËfd, AusI myN BgvqI crn, AusI myN XÈpfl, sb log AusI myN hI rihqy Qy. qo ab Xojnf Xh bnI ik ies logon ko CuVfnf hY. qo aMdr bfhr mYsyj Byjny kf koeI qrIkf qo inkflf hogf ienhoNny. bhrhfl Xh qh hUaf ik hmfry do afdmI lfan myN bYTkr qfÈ KylyNgy, aOr Xh pRogrfm Bgq isMG kf hI bnfXf hUaf Qf, kXoNik hm sfrf pRogrfm Bgq isMG kf hI lyqy Qy bfhr. qo hmfry rfjnIiqk kYdIXoN ny BUK hVqfl kr rKI QI. BUK hVqfl qo jfn bUJ kr hI krqy Qy kXoNik ies bfq myN pblIistI hoqI QI, CyVf CfVI BI hoqI QI. qo vh BUK hVqfl ikXy hUey Qy qo Bgq isMG Aunko mnfny ky ilXy jf rhf Qf ik BfeI qum hVqfl qoV lo. vkIloN ny khf, sbny khf qo Xh qh hUaf ik Bgq isMG jfkr Aunko nyqf ky qOr pr mnfeygf ik ab qoV do, hmfrI mFgy pUrI ho rhI hYN.
qo Bgq isMG vhF sy inklygf bostl jyl sy, jo sb log sËf pfey hUey Qy vh qo sYNtrl jyl myN aOr ijn pr mukwdmf cl rhf Qf vh bostl jyl myN Qy. QoVf Ìfslf Qf bIc aOr iesI ky afgy hmfrI koTI QI aOr vhF sfmny lfn myN bYTkr hmfry cfr afdmI qfÈ KylyNgy. afdmIXoN kI hmfry pfs kmI nhIN QI. Bgq isMG kI vjh sy pMjfb myN qo aYsI iËMdgI af geI QI ik jo bVy bVy srkfrI aÌsr Qy voh log Éud pYsf dyqy Qy. ab hmko BI ËrUrq nhIN rih geI QI ik zfkf vgYrf zflyN Xf kuC kryN, hmko pYsy imlqy Qy hr qrh shfieqf imlqI QI.
ÉYr Bgq isMG ko CuVfnyN myN, vh jb bostl jyl sy inklygf qo vh log jo qfÈ Kyl rhy hYN, sItI bjfeyNgy Xf iksI qrh kf BI koeI ieÈfrf jo AunhoNny rKf hogf, kryNgy. aOr Bgq isMG jb bYT rhf hogf Xf kXf hY muJy pUrI zItylË Xfd nhIN hY qo Aus vkq cMdr ÈyÉr vgYrf apnI kfr lykr ky nËdIk jfeyNgy aOr atYk kryNgy. do cfr afdmI pICy rhyNgy ijnky pfs bMb BI hoNgy. qo atYk myN puils vfly qo hoqy hI hYN jylH vfloN ky sfQ, qo Aunko rokyNgy. ies qrh sy QI hmfrI Xojnf. mgr hUaf Xh ik jb vh bMb bnky afgry sy phuMcy qo myry pqI Xh kihny lgy ik ienko pihly dyKnf cfhIey qjrbf krky ik TIk BI hY Xf nhIN. qo eyk idn bs vh dupihr ko Kfny ky bfd………
pR: kXf vo jo skIm QI Aussy pihly ikaf hUaf?
Au: hF pihly. irhrsl qo roË ho rhf Qf, log jfqy Qy, bYTqy Qy ik koeI cIË AuT nf jfey. voh qo aksr sfeIz bfeI sfeIz cl rhf Qf mgr jo idn qX ikXf Qf vo idn nhIN Qf. Xh qo Aunhony khf ik hm clkr pihly qjrbf kr lyN qo suKdyv rfj, myrf iÉafl hY vfÈpfien, suKdyv rfj Xh dUsrf hY………
pR: kXf suKdyv rfj do Qy?
Au: hF, do Qy.
pR: pihlf kOn Qf?
Au: Xh ijskf aBI iËkr kr rhy hYN, ijsko ÌFsI hUeI Bgq isMG ky sfQ.
pR: Xh khF ky rihny vfly Qy?
Au: Xh lfielpur kf Qf.
pR: Xfin ky pMjfb ky hI Qy.
Au: hF pMjfb kf hI QF lyikn ÉqrI Qf, QfpV Qf.
pR: ienky ipqf jI ikaf kfm krqy Qy?
Au: ienky ipqf jI nhIN Qy. ienky cfcf Qy jo ibËnYs krqy Qy aOr mF QI. Xh ÉuÈ nhIN Qf apny Gr myN. Xh jb pfrtI myN afXf qo hm sb logoN ko ByVqf Qf, afdmI bhuq bVIaf Qf, lyikn ByVqf Qf lVqf Qf vh ies iley ik voh apny Gr myN bhuq duKI Qf.
pR: kYsy duKI Qf, kXoN Qf?
Au: Gr kf vfqfvrx psMd nhIN hogf.
pR: dUsrf suKdyv rfj kOn Qf?
Au: dUsrf suKdyv rfj eyk aOr Qf jo zI: ey: vI kflj myN pVHqf Qf. ijsny hm sb logoN ky sfQ, XÈpfl ky sfQ, myry pqI ky sfQ myN hI pVHfeI CoVI QI, Xh vh Qf, AuskI mOq ho geI hY.
pR: vh khF ky rhny vfly Qy suKdyv rfj?
Au: Xh Èfied lfhOr kf rihny vflf Qf.
pR: qo hF vh qjrby vflI bfq cl rhI QI………
Au: ………hF qo suKdyv rfj ko aOr vfÈpfien ko sfQ lykr dupihr ky 1-00 bjy ky krIb rfvI ky iknfry pr gey. vh bMb kI koeI ipn glq QI jo ZIlI QI, vhIN Ìt gXf. aOr Ìtny sy sfrf AUpr pV gXf. vYsy hm logoN ny zfktroN kf BI ieMqËfm ikXf hUaf Qf, Ìst eyz kf BI ieMqËfm Qf. zfktr mOjUd Qy, Ìst eyz QI lyikn aBI qo koeI aYsf koeI aYkÈn nhIN ho rhf Qf ik hm log Aus ky ilXy eyk dm sy qYXfr hoqy. qo ÉYr AusmyN Xh hUaf ik voh bMb Ìt gXf qo suKdyv afXf Gr myN qo Ausny bqfXf……….
pR: qo kXf vh BgvqI crn pr pV gXf Qf?
Au: hF, AUpr pV gXf Qf. suKdyv rfj jo Qf iesky pYr myN BI cot afeI, iesky pYr myN BI Ds gXf Qf. qo Xh iksI qrh qFgy myN Gr phuMcf qo iesny Gr afkr ieqlfh dI. sb log pryÈfn ho gey. Ausky bfd DnvMqrI jI ko bulfieaf gXf. DnvMqrI aBI bfhr hI rihqf Qf. qo iÌr hUaf Xh ik XÈpfl inkly aOr ienhony zfktr vgYrf ko ZUMZnf ÈurU ikXf. eyk afD apnf sfQI ZUMZf aOr ies qrh krqy krfqy kfÌI tfeIm inkl gXf. jb vhF phuMcy qo ien logoN ky kihny ky anusfr vh afÉrI GVIaF QI, qo AunhonyN (myry pqI ny) khf ik ab muJy bykfr ly jfEgy, vhF aOr log ÌsyNgy, Xh TIk hY, mYN qo Éqm ho hI rhf hUM, mYny jo kfm qX ikaf Qf vh clnf cfhIey.
pR: qo afp ko kb pqf clf ies bfq kf?
Au: vhI jb suKdyv rfj afXf vfips, Ausky BI pYr myN cot lgI QI nf, qo vh lOt ky afXf qo Ausny hm ko bqfXf.
pR: qo afp BI vhF gey?
Au: nhIN, hm log nhIN gey. qIn cfr afdmI gey. hm log ies iley nhIN gey ikAuNik afËfd ny khf ik vhF jfnf surwiKaq nhIN hY. qo rfq ko qIn cfr bjy afËfd, DnvMqrI, pihly qo XÈpfl gey smfn lykr Ìst eyz kf, pr ab dyr ho cukI QI. qo Ausky bfd iÌr rfq qo cMdr ÈyÉr afËfd, DnvMqrI aOr do cfr afdmI aOr (nfm qo muJy Xfd nhIN), AunhoNny AunhyN vhIN pr dÌnf idXf.
pR: sskfr nhIN ikaf?
Au: sskfr vgYrf jo kuC BI ikaf, vhIN ikaf?
pR: qo Aus vkq afpkf lVkf ikqnI Aumr kf Qf?
Au: qIn sfl kf hogf.
pR: XhI bwcf jo afpky sfQ hY?
Au: nhIN, vh afjkl XhF nhIN hY, bhfr gXf hUaf hY.
pR: Ausky bfd kXf afp XhIN rhy lKnAU myN?
Au: nhIN, Ausky bfd mYN pkVI geI. Ausky bfd iÌr hUaf Xh ik……Xh bhuq lMbI khfnI hY.
pR: Aus skIm kf ikaf hUaf?
Au: vh skIm qo PylH ho geI. koeI aYkÈn qo ho hI nhIN skf. Ausky sfQ hI sfQ dUsrI durGtnf jo hUeI vh Xh ik XhF Gr myN do bMb rwKy hUey Qy almfrI myN. XÈpfl so rhy Qy eyk kmry myN, mYN aOr suÈIlf jI eyk kmry myN, cMdr ÈyÉr afËfd aOr bfkI log eyk kmry myN Qy. qo XÈpfl ky kmry myN bMb Ìt gXf, pMKf clf nf rfq ko, meI kf mhInf Qf qo pMKf jYsy hI bMd ikXf qo grmI sy vh bMb Ìt gXf. qo Xh sb inkl afey. aOr jb bMb Ìt gXf qo socf ik Xh sfQ vfly ËrUr ieqlfh kryNgy, bqlfeyNgy logoN ko. qo cMdr ÈyÉr afËfd koTI sy inkly aOr sfQ vfly ieMjIanr ky XhF gey. irvflvr Aunky hfQ myN Qf. cMdr ÈyÉr afËfd ny ieMjInIar ko khf, “dyKo qum srkfrI mulfËm ho qum puils ko aBI ieqlfh mq kro, afDy GMty ky bfd krnf, hm log ienklfbI hYN, jb hm XhF sy ht jfeyNgy, qb ieqlfh kr dynf.” vh bycfrf mfn gXf. smfn vgYrf qo hmfry pfs ieqnf nhIN Qf, hm sb log jldI jldI inkl gey. mYN qo kyvl ikRÈn ieMjInIar Qy lfhOr myN, vhI hm ko bMb vgYrf kf msflf bqfqf Qf, pqf nhIN vh bycfrf iËMdf BI hY Xf nhIN, agr iËMdf hY qo khIN Xh bfq Ausky iÉlfÌ nf jfey. ÉYr Ausky XhF hmko pMdrF idn rihnf pVf ikAuNik vhF sy iksI kf BI inklnf muÈikl Qf. iÌr DIry DIry ijsko BI iksI qrÌ sy rfsqf imlf Xh hmko iksI ko BI nhIN mflUm, qo sb log inkly vhF sy. suÈIlf jI iksI apnI shylI ky XhF clI geI. qo iksI qrh sy kr krf ky hm idwlI afey. idwlI myN skImyN bnqI rhI Ausky bfd iÌr Bgq isMG ko ÌFsI kI sËf hUeI. jb Bgq isMG ko ÌFsI kf aYlfn hUaf qo Aus vkq mYN, cMdrÈyÉr afËfd aOr log kfnpur myN Qy.
pR: afp kfnpur kb gey Qy?
Au: mYN bqfqI hUM. qo kfnpur myN jb Xh hUaf qo hmny BYXf sy khf (cMdr ÈyÉr afËfd k hm BYXf khqy Qy) ik ab qo qumhyN kuC krnf cfhIey, Xh qo bhuq Êlq bfq hY ik Xyh ÌFsI ltkf ky hmfry ieqny mhwqvpUrn afdmI ko. aOr nf gFDI jI kuC kr rhy hYN nf voh log kr rhy hYN. qo mYN pihly idwlI myN gFDI jI sy imlI QI sn 1930 myN, idn muJy Xfd nhIN. mYN gFDI jI ko rfq ky 12 bjy zf: aMsfrI kI koTI pr imlI. mYN aOr suÈIlf jI donoN QIN aOr gFDI jI sy khf ik dyKo afp ‘gFDI iervn pYkt’ myN jf rhy hYN (rfAUNz tybl kfnPrMs) afp hmfry Bgq isMG kI iËMdgI kI Èrq rKIey ies myN. jYsy ik kFgrs ky logo ko CuVfny kI rKI QI, qo hmny khf ik Bgq isMG kI BI rKIey. qo gFDI jI ny khf ik BeI Xh qo ihMsf-aihMsf kf mfmlf hY aOr hm qo iesmyN ivÈvfs nhIN rKqy. qo ÉYr iÌr hmny cMdr ÈyÉr afËfd sy khf ik ab qo kuC krnf cfhIey hmyN. qo afËfd ny hmko bMb Byj idaf. bMby jfkr ky……vhF BI eyk nyqf Qy srdfr ipRQvI isMG purfnI gdr pfrtI ky…….
pR: bfbf ipRQI isMG afËfd?
Au: hF, bfbf ipRQvI isMG afËfd. vh ab BI keI bfr hmfry pfs afey hYN. Xh vhF ky nyqf Qy. qo hm logoN ny Xh qh ikaf ik lfrz hylI Qf vhF, vh pihly pMjfb kf BI gvrnr rh cukf Qf qo hmny khf ik Ausko Éqm krnf hY. Xh qh ikaf gXf ik Ausko golI mfryNgy aOr bfd myN AuskI pbilistI kryNgy ik aYsf hmny ikAuN ikaf? qo mflfvfr ihl pr rhqf Qf vh gvrnr. qo skIm Xh bnI ik mYN koeI pfrsI lyzI kI hYsIaq sy jfAUNgI vhF pr, Ausko apnf kfrz pyÈ krUMgI aOr jb vh kfrz dyK rhf hogf Aus vkq Ausko do afdmI golI mfr dyNgy. Xh bVI ÈyK iclI jYsI bfqyN lgqI hYN ab krqy hYN qo. lyikn swcfeI Xh hY ik hoqy hI aYsy Qy kfm. ÉYr! qo hmny irhrsl ÈurU kr dI jYsy ik koeI BI zrfmf krny sy pihly irhrsl kI jfqI hY. jYsy ik lfhOr myN Bgq isMG ko CuVfny ky iley irhrsl hUeI QI vYsy XhF BI irhrsl ÈurU hUeI aOr irhrsl krny vfly aYsy byvkUÌ Qy ik vh pihly puils vfloN ko pqf lg gXf aOr sfry pMjfb kI jo puils hY vh mflfvfr ihl myN KVI QI. koeI BI gfVI jfey Auskf nMbr ilKqy Qy, koeI BI cIË jfey vh pUCqy Qy. qo kudrqI hI vhF jfnf syÌ nhIN Qy. qo ieqny myN mflfvfr ihl sy eyk gfVI afeI aOr isnmy ky afgy rukI. Aus gfVI myN bYTy sb log qgmyN vgmyN lgfey hUey, puils aÌsr hI lg rhy Qy. rfq kf vkq Qf, sfZy igafrF bj cuky Qy GUmqy GUmqy. ipRQvI isMG ny qih ikaf ik ab qo kuC kr ky hI jfnf hY qo AunhoNny afrzr idaf ‘ÈUt’, qo hmny clf dI ipsqOl AusI gfVI ky AUpr aOr kMmbÉq koeI sfrjYNt inklf, Ausky eyk hfQ pr golI lgI, eyk tfier Ìt gXf. pqf nhIN ikaf hUaf lyikn vh mrf nhIN aOr nf hI Ausko mfrny kf koeI mqlb Qf. qo Ausky bfd XhF af gey kfnpur. kfnpur sy mYN ielfhfbfd clI geI.
pR: qo iÌr pkVf nhIN AunhoNny iksI ko?
Au: pkVqy kYsy. pqf hI nhIN Qf iksI ko, Èfrdf bihn hmfrf nfm Qf. hm Bfg gey vhF sy rfqo rfq kfr QI apny pfs. lyikn kys clf bfd myN. kys XUM clf ik suKdyv rfj myry sfQ myN Qf. mYN suKdyv rfj aOr bwcy hmny bfbf sfvrkr jo Qy Aunky pfs CoV idaf Qf mYny aOr mYny khf ik hm iksI kfm sy jf rhy hYN agr ijLMdf af gey qo apnf lVkf vfips ly lyNgy aOr agr mr gey qo ies pqy pr vhF phuMcf dynf. ÉYr iËMdf qo af gey hm. Ausky bfd hmyN vhF sy inklny myN kfÌI idwkq QI. klXfx qwk hmny tYksI ikrfey pr lI aOr kilafx sy afkr ky iÌr itkt ilaf kfnpur kf aOr iÌr kfnpur af gey. cMdr ÈyÉr afËfd ko sfrI dfsqfn sunfeI. iÌr ielfhfbfd cly gey. ab eyk qrh sy sb kfm Éqm ho igaf. ab iksI qrh sy iËMdgI kftny vflI bfq rih geI.
pR: Xh kb kI bfq hY?
Au: jb Bgq isMG ko PFsI hUeI hY Ausky bfd. 1931 kI bfq hY. ijs sfl Bgq isMG ko PFsI hUeI, cMdr ÈyÉr afËfd BI AusI sfl mry. Xh ÌrvrI kf mhInf Qf. mYN ielfhfbfd myN hI QI.
pR: qo afp ky socf ik ab iksI qrh sy itk jfeyN?
Au: hF, aYsf hUaf ik jb myry pqI kI imRqU hUeI, Bgq isMG vgYrf sb ko ÌFsI hUeI qInoN ko aOr AuDr Xh afËfd kI BI imRqXU ho geI ÌrvrI myN. ab jo kuC pfrtI kf sMgTn Qf vh ibKr gXf. aYsf qo ÈurU sy hI rhqf hY ik kBI qo Ëor pkVqy Qy Xh kfm aOr kBI ruk jfqy Qy. qo ies ilXy smJ myN nhIN afqf Qf ik ikaf kIXf jfey. QoVHy idn mYN ielfhfbfd myN krfsims kflj myN dfiÉl ho geI, spYÈl klfs myN qFik borizMg myN rihny ky lIey jgh iml jfey.
pR: aOr afpkf bwcf khF Qf?
Au: bwcf qo hmny Byj idaf Qf zlhOËI. vhF zfktr mylf rfm isivl srjn Qy lfhOr myN aOr Aunky koeI bwcf nhIN Qf qo Aunky pfs vhF Byj idaf Qf. Èrq Xh QI ik agr hm mr gey qo bwcf afpkf aOr agr bc gey qo hmfrf. ÉYr Ausky bfd hUaf Xh ik jb dyKf ik kuC nhIN ho rhf hY qo eyk bfbU prÈoqm dfs tMzn Qy jo ielfhfbfd ky jo spIkr rh cuky hYN.
pR: qo afp tMzn jI ky pfs geIN?
Au: hF, tMzn jI ny muJ sy khf ik dyKo mYN qumhyN lVkI kI qrh mfnqf hUM lyikn myN vhF rhnf TIk nhIN smJqI QI aOr jb Xh dyKf ik pfrtI kf sMgTn aOr kfm iCnibn ho gXf hY, afps myN aOr sb log hI alg alg ho gey hYN. koeI aYsf kyNdr nhIN rh gXf hY jo sbko sfQ bFD ky nhIN clqf. aOr ieqnI bVI qIn hsqIaF hmfrI eyk hI sfl myN AuT geI qo hmfrI ihMmq tUt geI. qo hmny Xh qh ikaf ik clo idwlI myN kuC logoN sy imlyN. agr ney isry sy koeI kfm kr skyN qo kryN nhIN qo soco ikaf kryN. hmfrf Xh ierfdf nhIN Qf ik hm apny afp ko pkVvf dyN. lyikn jb iGr gey, mYN ielfhfbfd sy kfnpur hoqI hUeI jf rhI QI, idwlI, qo kfnpur myN muJy puils vfloN ny Gyrf. aOr idwlI ijs hotl myN hm Tihry vhF BI AunhoNny Gyrf. AusI sfQ ky kmry myN Thr gXf. qo qIn cfr bfr koiÈÈ kI kBI pYdl qo kBI tYksI sy, kBI tFgy sy, qb irkÈf nhIN clqI QI Aus Ëmfny myN, ik hm kuC logoN sy sMprk kryN. lyikn vh bhuq burI qrh sy pICf krqy Qy. pICf krny kf mqlb Qf ik hm ijsy BI imlyN Ausko PsfeyN qo cfr pFc afdmI ho jfeyN qb eyk aYsf hogf. vh BI muJy TIk nhIN lgf. qo mYny eyk idn qh ikaf ik XhF sy clf jfey. lfhOr kf itkt ilaf aOr rfq kI gfVI myN bYT geI. vhF phuMc kr mYN styÈn sy sIDI iqRpVI pRYs afÌ ieMzIaf mY geI aOr Aunko mYny apnf ibafn idaf ik Xh puils vfly muJy Gyry hUey hYN nf Xh pkVqy hyN aOr nf hmyN afËfdI dyqy hyN ik hm iksI sy imlyN julyN, kuC kryN. mYN apny Gr jf rhI hUM, jo kuC krnf hY, so kryN. mYN koeI 10-11 bjy apny Gr phuMc geI. phuMcI qo koeI eyk GMty ky bfd hI puils af geI. do motryN QIN eyk puils kI gfVI QI bIc myN. bfkfiedf jYsy irvfË Qf Aus Ëmfny myN sMgIn lyky bYTnf. ab vh ly gey pkV ky. vhF sy ikly myN ly gey. bfad myN puils ny kuC smX ky iley rImFz BI ilaf aOr 1918 ky rYgUlyÈn qIn ky mfqihq nËrbMd kr ilaf. Cy mhIny nËrbMd rKny ky bfad lfhOr Èihr myN 3 sfl nËrbMd rKf. iesI qrh 1934 kf smX af gXf aOr nËrbMdI Éqm hony ky bfad mYN ÊfiËafbfd af geI. vhF ‘ipafry lfl grlË skUl’ myN aiDafpkf ky rUp myN kfm krnf ÈurU kr idaf.